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Thick Thighs & Murder Vibes 's Podcast
Thick Thighs and Murder Vibes is what happens when your emotionally unstable best friend gets a microphone and an unhealthy obsession with true crime. The cases are horrifying, the jokes are questionable, and Terra is one caffeine-fueled and marijuana induced breakdown away from becoming a suspect herself, this podcast serves up the kind of commentary that would absolutely get us kicked out of a police briefing. So light a candle, triple-check your locks, and come laugh through the trauma — because therapy is expensive, but podcasts are free.
Thick Thighs & Murder Vibes 's Podcast
Hinterkaifeck: A Stranger in the Shadows
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This week, things are looking a little different around here because Terra has company. Shaq is stepping into the guest-host seat, and he’s bringing us one of the creepiest unsolved mysteries in true crime history: the Hinterkaifeck murders.
In 1922, a remote German farm became the center of a mystery that has haunted investigators for more than a century. Strange footprints. Unexplained noises. Someone—or something—lurking around the property. And then, a horrifying discovery that left an entire community searching for answers.
Who was watching the family before the crime? Why were there signs that someone may have remained on the farm afterward? And how the hell did the killer disappear without being caught?
Shaq is presenting the case, Terra is bringing the commentary, and together they're diving headfirst into one of history's most baffling unsolved mysteries.
Lock your doors, trust your gut, and grab your bestie… because this week, the vibes are VERY haunted.
Imagine walking into a farmhouse where everything looks normal. The fire is still burning, the animals have been fed, food has been prepared, the family dog is still waiting outside. Everything tells you someone is home, except the people who live there are dead. And today's episode is a little different because we have a very special guest host joining us. So today, I'm bringing the Thick Thighs.
SPEAKER_00And I'm bringing the Murder Vibes.
SPEAKER_01And honestly, I think that's a pretty fair division of labor. So before we get into all the murder and mayhem, I figure we should probably let you introduce yourself because I can't just throw you into the episode and assume everybody knows who you are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, probably a good idea. So I'm Shaq. Um trauma riddled, dark-humored, dad of three, uh, just making it through the world and connecting with people who have a like mind like me.
SPEAKER_01Now that we've established that, tell everybody why the hell you picked this particular case.
SPEAKER_00So, as you and I talked about, my grandfather used to tell me, my sister, um, a couple of my cousins a story um about what we're gonna talk about here. Obviously, in those moments, he wasn't as detailed, but if you really think about it, it is kind of like camping, right? But you don't know what's out there.
SPEAKER_01Okay, hold on. Your grandfather told you this story while you were camping, because that's a choice.
SPEAKER_00Definitely made an impression.
SPEAKER_01I can imagine you're sitting around a campfire, probably like surrounded by darkness, and your grandfather's like, Hey, you want to hear about this family that was murdered at an isolated farmhouse in Germany?
SPEAKER_00Pretty much, maybe not as many words.
SPEAKER_01That's fucking terrifying.
SPEAKER_00Indeed.
SPEAKER_01And now you've decided to pass the trauma on to our listeners. I respect it. And honestly, it's kind of perfect timing because it is officially camping season, but I just have to be very clear about something. I don't camp. I don't like camping, I don't want to camp. You know the saying, adventure is out there. You know what else is out there? Serial killers and mosquitoes and bears and absolutely no fucking Wi-Fi. So I'm gonna let you have the camping, but if you're listening to this around a campfire right now, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00You should probably keep listening.
SPEAKER_01And this is why I let you bring the murder vibes. All right, besties. This one is fucking weird. So grab your snacks, get comfortable, lock your doors, and maybe check the windows one extra time, because Shaq is about to tell you the story of Hinter Kaifek.
SPEAKER_00So to understand the horror of what happened on March 31st, 1922, we have to start with the place itself. Hinter Kaifek wasn't a town, wasn't even really a village. It was an isolated farmstead in Bavaria, roughly 70 kilometers north of Munich, near the small hamlet of Kaifek, and surrounded by fields of woodland. And that isolation matters, because in 1922, this wasn't a place where you could look out your window and see your neighbor's porch light. If something happened in Hinter Kaifek, there weren't people right next door to hear it. Living on the farm were six people. There was sixty-three-year-old Andreas Gruber, the patriarch of the family, and a 72-year-old wife, Kazilia. Their widowed daughter, 35-year-old Victoria Gabriel, lived there with her two children, seven-year-old Kazilia and two-year-old Joseph. And then there was Maria Baumgartner, the family's new maid. She had only just arrived. She was supposed to begin work the following day. Instead, March 31st would be the last day of her life. And that's when we go into the Gruber family. The Grubers weren't exactly beloved in the surrounding community. They were private, reclusive, and according to people who knew them, difficult. Andreas in particular had a reputation for being controlling and aggressive. And the family carried some very dark history. In 1915, Andreas and his daughter Victoria were convicted of incest. That fact would become important later because when investigators and researchers tried to understand why somebody would want this family dead, they weren't looking at a household without enemies. There were already strained relationships, old grudges, and people who had reasons to be angry with the group groups.
SPEAKER_01Okay, hold on. Not being liked by your neighbors is one thing. I've accidentally ignored neighbors because I didn't want to make awkward eye contact while taking out my trash. That doesn't usually escalate to entire family murdered.
SPEAKER_00That's fair. But just days before the murders, Andreas reported finding footprints in the snow. They appeared to lead from the direction of the forest toward Henter Kaifek. But there was something deeply strange about them. There were no corresponding tracks leading back toward the woods. Someone or something appeared to have come toward the farm and then simply disappeared. Andreas searched around the property, but he didn't find anyone. He didn't find an obvious explanation.
SPEAKER_01Okay, absolutely not. I'm selling the farm. The cows can have it, the chickens are adults now, I'm fucking leaving.
SPEAKER_00See, I'm naturally curious, right? So I'd be hook, line, and sinker the whole time. I am a cause and effect kind of person. If something made a noise, I gotta know why, I gotta know what. But then there were the noises. Andreas reported hearing strange sounds coming from the attic, scratching, movement. The kind of sound that makes you wonder whether there's an animal up there or somebody who shouldn't be. And this wasn't just Andreas. The family's previous maid, Kres Sens Riger. Listen, you guys saw how it was spelled, you'd understand. Also described strange things she experienced while working at Hinterkaifek. But when Andreas investigated, he didn't find an obvious explanation, and that left the family with something they couldn't explain, and no idea whether they were actually alone.
SPEAKER_01See, this is where horror movies lose me. Because Andreas just keeps investigating, and I'd hear one mysterious thump, and congratulations, Attic belongs to whatever made that noise. I'm not renewing the lease.
SPEAKER_00What if you own the place though? You're just out of there?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Bye.
SPEAKER_00Fair enough. I guess I, again, we talked about this just moments ago. I'm naturally curious. I have to know what it was, and if I'm gonna die, I have to at least see who killed me. Can't just go out blindly.
SPEAKER_01Nope, not me.
SPEAKER_00Fair enough. Then another strange detail appeared. A key to the property, property had gone missing, and that might sound insignificant, but remember, we're talking about a remote farmhouse where someone is reportedly hearing unexplained noises, strange tracks have appeared in the snow, and nobody seems to know exactly what's happening around the property. Now a key is missing.
SPEAKER_01Nope. Someone steals my keys, I'm changing every lock, I'm also sleeping somewhere else, probably another country.
SPEAKER_00Valid, but just wait. Then there was a newspaper. An unfamiliar Munich newspaper reportedly appeared at the farm, one that nobody in the household remembered obtaining. On its own, that's not exactly proof of an intruder, but put it together with everything else: the footprints, the strange noises, the missing key, and suddenly this isolated farm starts to feel a whole lot less isolated.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so someone leaves a newspaper that nobody ordered after mysterious footprints, creepy attic noises, and missing keys. At this point, the universe has sent you like six notifications saying, hey, something weird is happening.
SPEAKER_00And then there was another strange piece to this story, because I'm not done yet. Family's previous maid was Kresins Rager. She had worked at Hinter Kaifek until late summer of 1921. Later, she described strange experiences she had while living there. She reported hearing noises and became convinced that something wasn't right at the farm. Her statements changed in some details over the years, so it's difficult to separate what she personally experienced from the stories that developed around Hinter Kaifek after work. But one thing is clear, she left. And months later, the groupers hired someone new.
SPEAKER_01Imagine accepting this job. It's like great benefits, no. Flexible schedule? Also, no. Haunted farmhouse with a site of serial killer? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00So, back on track. On the afternoon of March 31st, Maria Baumgartner arrived at Hinter Kaifek. Her sister, Francisca, accompanied her to the farm. Maria had been hired to begin work on April 1st. So when she arrived that afternoon, she probably thought that she was simply starting a new job. She had no way of knowing what was waiting for her there. Within hours, she'd be dead. And then came the night of March 31st. We'll never know exactly what happened inside Hinter Kaifek that night. We don't know exactly how the victims were brought into the barn. We don't know whether the killer acted alone, and we don't know precisely what happened in the moments leading up to the murders. What we do know is that all six people at Hinter Kaifek were killed. Andreas, Kazillia, Victoria, seven-year-old Kazilia, two-year-old Joseph, and Maria Baumgartner. Four of the victims were found in the barn. Maria and Joseph were found inside the living quarters. The murder weapon was a heavy farm implement belonging to the property. Beyond those facts, the exact sequence of events disappears into the unknown.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's unsettling.
SPEAKER_00But this is where Hinterkythex stops being just a horrific murder case and becomes something much harder to explain. The murders happened Friday night. The bodies weren't discovered until Tuesday, April 4th. Four days. And during that time, the farm didn't behave like an abandoned crime scene. The animals had been fed, food had been eaten, fireplace had been used, smoke was seen coming from the chimney. But someone appeared to still be using the property.
SPEAKER_01After murdering six people, the killer just stays and feeds the animals. Like, excuse me, sir, hotels exist and the cows can door dash.
SPEAKER_00True that. Did me dirty, but you also like made sure everyone was good. So in a weird way, yeah. But this is one of the details that makes the case so disturbing. Whoever remained there didn't appear to be acting like someone desperate to escape. They fed the livestock, they used the house, they ate food, they kept the fire going. Whatever their reasoned for staying, they seemed remarkably comfortable on a property where six people had just been killed. But outside Hinter Kaifek, life was continuing. And slowly people started noticing that something wasn't right. Visitors came to the farm and got no response. The family didn't attend church, seven-year-old Kazilia didn't show up at school. Still nobody knew what was happening inside that farmhouse. Six people were already dead, and whoever had remained at Hinter Kaifek had apparently managed to keep the outside world from utilizing it. Then, Tuesday, April 4th arrived. That morning, a local mechanic named Hoffner came to Hinter Kaifek to repair an engine. He waited for someone from the family to come out, but nobody did. After about an hour, Hoffner decided to get on with the repair himself, and he stayed there for roughly four and a half hours working on the machinery alone at a farmhouse where six people were already dead and had absolutely no idea.
SPEAKER_01Can you imagine clocking in and fixing somebody's equipment for four hours and then thinking, wow, these people are rude?
SPEAKER_00See, my my perspective on that honestly is like nobody likes to be micromanaged, right? So to have somebody not come out breathing over your shoulder, I mean, I would have just been like, man, that was awesome. Let me know if you want me to come back.
SPEAKER_01But like no greeting or anything, no, like, hey, you want some water or iced tea? Like, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_00That is true. I'm sure he was getting thirsty. So later that afternoon, concern finally turned into action. Lorenz Schlittenbauer, here we go with these names again, guys, sent his son Johan and his stepson Joseph to check on the farm. They came back without finding anyone. So Lorenz went to Hinter Kaifac himself. He was accompanied by two neighbors, Michael Paul and Jacob Sig Sigle, I'm assuming. And when they entered the barn, they found the bodies. Four of them. Andreas, his wife Kazilia, his daughter Victoria, and seven-year-old Kazilia. The other two victims were found inside the house. Maria Baumgartner was found in a room, and two-year-old Joseph was found inside the living quarters. Six people, all dead, and the person responsible was gone. The investigation immediately became complicated. Crime scene was not preserved the way a modern crime scene would be. People had already entered the property, the bodies had been moved, the farm itself had been walked through, and forensic science in 1922 was nowhere near what investigators had available today. Over the years, more than a hundred suspects would be considered, and theories would range from robbery to revenge, family conflict, to a retonic returning soldier, organized criminals, and even a possible connection to an American serial killer theory. But the official answer has never changed. The Hinter Kaifek murders remain unsolved.
SPEAKER_01Now, this is where I'm gonna need everybody to remember one thing. We're not even at the suspects yet. And somehow I already don't trust anybody.
SPEAKER_00So let's just jump right in then, right? Let's start with the man who helped discover the bodies, Lorenz Schlittenbauer. He lived nearby. His connection to Victoria Gabriel made him one of the most disgust suspects in the entire case. Lawrence had previously been romantically involved with Victoria. Mm-hmm. He had wanted to marry her, he claimed to be the father of her son Joseph. That relationship had become complicated by the Gruber family's opposition, and there were disputes involving the child's paternity and financial support. So, Lawrence had motive, or at least a history of conflict with the family, but it was his behavior on the day the bodies were discovered that made people suspicious. According to later accounts, Lorenz entered the farm with the other men, but he appeared far more familiar with the property than they were. He also had a key to the house, a key that Andreas had previously reported missing, and that immediately raised eyebrows. Lawrence also knew the farm extremely well, and according to some accounts, he remained behind after the discovery to deal with the livestock. To people who already suspected him, that looked incredibly strange. But he was close to the family, he had a complicated history with Victoria, he had claimed to be Joseph's father, he had a key, he knew the property, and now he was behaving unusually at the crime scene. But there was a problem with this theory. There was no physical evidence proving Lawrence had committed the murders, and although suspicions followed him for decades, he was never convicted. He spent the rest of his life dealing with accusations and even pursued legal action against people who publicly accused him of being the killer.
SPEAKER_01I mean, sure, was he suspicious? Absolutely, but to say this man definitely murdered six people, suspicion is not the same thing as proof.
SPEAKER_00True, and this is why it's just number one on the theories list. But then we get into the one most cinematic theories surrounding Hinter Kaifekt, the ghost of Carl Gabriel. Victoria had previously been married to a man named Carl Gabriel. He went to war during World War I. He was reported killed in 1914, but his body was never recovered. And that missing body created an opening for one of the strangest theories in this entire case. What if Carl Gabriel hadn't died? What if he had survived? What if he had spent years as a prisoner of war or somehow made his way back to Bavaria? And what if he returned to Hinter Kaifac and discovered that his wife had moved on with her life? There was a new child, there were old family tensions, and there was the man who believed he was the father of Victoria's son. The theory suggests Carl could have returned to the farm, discovered what had happened in his absence, and committed the murders as an act of revenge.
SPEAKER_01I swear every old European mystery somehow turns into what if he wasn't actually dead? With this case, I can't even completely dismiss it.
SPEAKER_00Listen, we just we grab onto hope, okay? That's all that they were looking for. Um, so there's a massive problem. There's no reliable evidence that Carl Gabriel survived the war and returned to Bavaria. Stories about a German-speaking man in Soviet prison camp who supposedly claimed to have committed the murders emerged much later. They're fascinating, they're creepy, but they aren't proof. So Carl Gabriel remains one of the most haunting theories, but also one of the most speculative. Then we come to the Thalers. Members of the Thaler family were among the people suspected in connection with Hinter Kaifek. The suspicion wasn't completely random. There were reports connecting members of the family to criminal activity, and former maid Kresin Riger later said the Thaler brothers had behaved suspiciously around the farm and had asked questions about the family and their money. Some accounts also placed the family in connection with their earlier incidents involving Hinter Kaifek. That made them interesting to investigators. But this is where we have to be careful. The evidence against the Thalers is not a neat confession or smoking gun. It's a collection of suspicions, accusations, and witness statements that developed over the years. And the investigations against them were ultimately dropped.
SPEAKER_01So we're basically uh these guys were sketchy.
SPEAKER_00And that's the problem with so many interchaif theories.
SPEAKER_01Let's not exactly CSI-level evidence.
SPEAKER_00Listen, people were suspicious of someone, then another person remembered something, then somebody else told the story years later, and suddenly you've got a theory. That doesn't necessarily mean you've got a killer. Then we get into one of the darker theories: Adolf and Anton Gump. Adolf Gump had a violent history. He had served in the military and later became associated with the Freikorps Oberlind, an paramilitary organization active in the unstable political environment of post-World War I Germany. Police were already interested in Adolf and connection with violent crimes committed during the political conflicts of the period. That alone made him someone investigators were willing to look at, and years later, um attention turned toward his brother Anton as well. The biggest development came from their sister, Krezin Meyer. Shortly before her death in 1941, she reportedly told a priest that her brothers Adolf and Anton were responsible for the Hinter-Caifac murders. The allegation was eventually taken seriously enough that investigators revisited the Gump Brothers in the 1950s. Anton was arrested and questioned, but the evidence didn't hold. Adolf had already died in 1944, and in 1954, the investigation into the Gump Brothers was ultimately closed. And now we're leaving Bavaria entirely, because one theory suggests the killer may have come from America. Crime writer Bill James and his daughter Rachel McCarthy James developed a theory about a German immigrant named Paul Mueller in their book The Man from the Train. They argue that Mueller Mueller may have been responsible for a series of family murders in the United States during the early 20th century. The theory is based on similarities between different crimes: isolated homes, families attacked at night, and patterns that the authors believe suggested a single traveling offender. Listen, can I just say that Mueller, Mueller, I don't know what it is, but it does this does not flow off the tongue naturally. It's just not. But Mueller disappeared from American records around the period when the Hinter Kaifekt murders occurred. And because he was a German immigrant, the theory proposes that he could have returned to Germany and eventually committed the Hinter-Caifek murders. It's a fascinating theory, but it's also one of the biggest leaps in the entire case. There's no definitive evidence placing Paul Mueller, Weller, here we go again, at Hinter Kaifek.
SPEAKER_01So basically, somebody looked at a bunch of murders in America and went, wait a minute, what if our guy took a European vacation?
SPEAKER_00Great movie, by the way. But yes, that's basically the theory.
SPEAKER_01That's fucking wild. Like he's Jack Ripper or something.
SPEAKER_00It is. And honestly, it's one of those theories that is incredibly fun to investigate because if the similarities are meaningful, it completely changes how you look at interkifec. But there's a giant problem. There's no proof Mueller was ever there.
SPEAKER_01So I'm putting This one in the category of holy shit, that's interesting, not case closed.
SPEAKER_00Fair. I think that is a perfect place to file that. Then there's the theory that turns the entire story upside down. What if the killer wasn't an outsider? What if the answer was inside the family? This theory suggests the violence at Hinter Kyfek may have started with the toxic and deeply troubled relationships inside the household. Andreas and Victoria had a documented incest conviction, there were long-standing tensions within the family, there were questions surrounding Joseph's paternity, and then there were people in the surrounding community who believed the household was deeply dysfunctional. So one version of the theory suggests that Andreas Andreas himself could have been responsible for some or all of the deaths. Another variation suggests that someone else entered the picture afterward and killed Andreas. That would mean the crime wasn't the work of one mysterious outsider at all. Could have been a sequence of events evolving more than one person.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I hate this one. Because I was perfectly comfortable with mysterious murderer hiding in an attic. Now we're talking about the possibility that the answer was already inside that house.
SPEAKER_00And that's the problem. Every theory has something going for it. And every theory has something that doesn't quite fit. Lauren Schlittenbauer, Schlittlebauer. Mean names that's just going to be consistent throughout this whole thing. And consistency is key.
SPEAKER_01I do it all the time too. I I'll be out there just like spelling shit. I'm like, y'all figure it out.
SPEAKER_00As long as you guys know who I'm talking about, we're just and in fact, Lauren's right, Schlittenbauer, does that's irrelevant. But Lawrence had a personal connection to Victoria, knew the property, and behaved strangely during the discovery. But there's no physical evidence proving that he was the killer. Carl Gabriel gives us the most haunting story imaginable: a supposedly dead husband returning from war only to find his old life completely changed, but there's no reliable evidence that he survived the war. Thalers had suspicious connections that and were investigated. The Thalers had suspicious connections and were investigated, but the evidence against them never became conclusive. The Gump brothers had a deathbed accusation hanging over them, but the investigation eventually collapsed. Paul Mueller Mueller, we're just gonna call him Paul, provides a fascinating international theory, but there's no evidence putting in that in Hinter Kaifek. And the family theory explains some of the household's dysfunction, but creates even more questions about how the murders and the aftermath could have happened. And then there's the biggest question of all. That detail is what keeps bringing people back to Hinter Kaifek. And eventually, more than 80 years after the murders, a group of police students decided to take another look. In 2007, 15 police academy students in oh boy, you guys are gonna not like this one at all. Firsten Feldbruck. You heard me? Firsten Feldbruck examined the Hinter Kaifek case as part of the major academic project. They went through the old evidence and looked at the investigation using modern criminological thinking. Their report was extensive and they came to an interesting conclusion. They believed the original investigators had actually done a surprisingly thorough job with the tools available to them, but they also pointed out serious weaknesses. The crime scene hadn't been properly preserved. Modern forensics methods weren't available. Important evidence had been lost, some leads weren't pursued as thoroughly as they might have been, and witnesses had died. After all that time, the students concluded that the case probably was impossible to prove conclusively, but there was one thing they did agree on. They independently arrived at the same primary suspect. They chose not to publish the suspect's identity out of consideration for living descendants, and that means we still don't have an official name. There have been plenty of claims about who that unnamed suspect was, but the police academy itself never publicly identified the person. And importantly, they did not officially solve the case.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So after more than 80 years, we finally get we think we know who did it, and then but we're taking that information to the grave. I need the police academy to understand that some of us are nosy.
SPEAKER_00And maybe that's why the physical place itself feels almost as important as the crime. The farm didn't remain standing for long. In 1923, roughly a year after the murders, the Hinter Kaifek buildings were demolished. The place where six people had lived, where six people had died, was gone. Today, there is no farmhouse standing there. The fields have reclaimed the land, but the story never disappeared. For more than a century, people have tried to reconstruct those final days. They've studied the footprints, the missing key, the strange noises, the newspaper, the previous made, the relationship between Victoria and Lorenz, the mystery surrounding Carl Gabriel, the criminal theories, the possibility of an outsider, the possibility of someone from within the family, and above all, the question of why someone would stay at the farm after the murders, because that's the detail that refuses to go away. The killer didn't just appear, kill, and disappear. Someone may have remained there, someone may have walked through that house, someone may have fed the animals, someone may have eaten the family's food, someone may have slept beneath the same roof as the people they just killed, and then they walked away. And we have no idea where they went.
SPEAKER_01Okay, Besties. I have so many fucking questions because I think the thing that gets me the most about Penter Kaifik isn't even the fact that six people were murdered. It's everything around it. The footprints, the attic noises, the missing key, the weird newspaper, the previous maid being uncomfortable enough to leave, Maria showing up for a new job and being murdered within hours, and then the killer staying. That's the part my brain can't let go of. Because imagine committing a crime that horrific and then looking around the farmhouse and thinking, yeah, I'm gonna hang out here for a few days. What the fuck?
SPEAKER_00And that's why this case has survived for more than a hundred years. Because we can come up with theories, we can point out suspects, we can argue about motive, but at the end of the day, we don't know.
SPEAKER_01So now it's your turn, Besties. Who do you think was responsible? Was it Lawrence? Was it Carl Gabriel somehow alive? Were the Thalers involved? Was it the Gump brothers? Could Paul Mueller actually have made his way from America to Germany? Or was the answer much closer to home? And here's the question I really want to know. Who was in the attic? Because I'm sorry, but after everything we've talked about tonight, I'm still thinking about the fucking attic. But that is Hinter Kaifik, Besties. Shaq, thank you so much for coming on the show and taking us down this absolutely fucking terrifying rabbit hole.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01And you can bring the Murr vibes anytime.
SPEAKER_00I might take you up on that.
SPEAKER_01And besties, if you liked today's episode, make sure you follow the show, subscribe wherever you listen, and leave us a five-star review. It really helps the show. And it lets me know you want me to keep bringing you all the weird shit. And if you have a theory about who was responsible for what happened at Henter Kaifik, drop it in the comments or send it my way. I want to know. Until next time, lock your doors, trust your gut, and maybe don't go poking around in the attic. Sometimes the thing that should scare you isn't the noise you hear. It's realizing you don't know who made it. Stay safe, stay weird, and I'll see you next time.
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